Conversation with writers, Gabriel Jason Dean, Jessie Dean and David Dabbon, about their new musical, “Our New Town”.
Broadway ReFocused is in conversation with Gabriel Jason Dean, Jessie Dean and David Dabbon, the writers of Our New Town, a new musical. Through music, immersion and meta theatrics, Our New Town calls us all to wake up and take ownership of our personal relationship to guns and gun violence. A hyper theatrical blend of truth with fiction, of scene with song, Our New Town is an immersive play that puts the audience at the center of an American crisis: gun violence. In this podcast we learn why this show was created, why the writers want their show to eventually be obsolete and we get to hear the rousing song “Line in the Sand” from their recent production at Wagner College. You can follow along on their journey at: www.gabrieljasondean.com & www.Daviddabbon.com.
MWI, Ep. 8 - OUR NEW TOWN
Spencer Williams: Welcome. Today, we are so excited to welcome Gabriel Jason Dean, Jesse Dean and David Dabbon -- writers of the new musical, Our New Town to Musicals with Impact. Welcome.
Gabriel Jason Dean: Thank you.
Spencer Williams: We're so excited that you're here and to talk about this incredible new show that you guys are writing. So, before we begin, I wanted to read out the synopsis, which I don't usually do.
We usually uncover that, but I just felt like this particular synopsis is what got me really interested in talking with you all. And I just feel like it's a good start and some good subtexts for our listeners. So, I'm just gonna go ahead and read it.
It says: "In the aftermath of the deadliest shooting on a college campus in US history, surviving cast members of Thornton Wilder's Our Town put together an unauthorized show as a way to reclaim their theater space and heal their broken community. But when the event is stopped mid-performance, the cast and audience must decide between compliance or defiance. A hyper theatrical blend of truth with fiction, of scene with song, Our New Town is an immersive musical that puts the audience at the center of an American crisis.
As an educator, who has been through numerous schools shooting trainings, scenarios, and professional development presentations, the connection between this subject matter and musical theater, the actual subject I teach is super fascinating to me.
And that's why I felt it was so important to give a broader context and conversation on Musicals with Impact. So, I'm so happy to have you here and to talk about this pretty important subject matter. Why don't we just start right at the beginning and tell us a little bit about like how the inspiration for Our New Town began.
Jesse Dean: Gabriel and I had just had our first son whose name is Wilder. And he was in the other room sleeping and we were both sort of scrolling on our phones and scrolled through yet another mass shooting. And I grew up, I was at the tail end of high school when Columbine happened.
So, school shootings were sort of on the periphery for me, as far as education was concerned. But they were a growing concern as our child was sleeping in the next room. And one of the lines in the article that we were both reading was about how all of the families had to wait at the fairgrounds to hear whether their loved one was alive or whether they had passed.
And we both thought that was so interesting and such a huge irony that there was this small town where this beautiful thing had taken place. Months before and now it was just this place that you were supposed to go and wait. So, there was a spark there that sort of ignited our interest and we thought, how can we as artists speak out about this, about this thing that we don't want our son to have to go through this on a daily basis.
We don't want to have to feel like we have to send him to school with protection measures. And I think that was sort of what sparked the whole idea for us. You want to add anything, Gabriel?
Gabriel Jason Dean: I would just add that, prior to that David and I had worked on a piece for an immersive theater for young audiences an immersive project called Hall Pass. Which took place in New York and on the West coast. And in that project each team got to choose a room in a high school that they would create a play or in our case, a musical, a musical scene. And we decided to pick the chorus room, cause that was easy for a musical.
But our topic was going to be, it would revolve around school shooting, a shooting that had happened at a, neighboring school while these kids were in the chorus room. And so from that experience that paired with, the conversation Jess and I were having, we immediately thought of David, to collaborate on this and I think, it is a leap, Spencer, I think to go from mass shootings to musical theater. It's not a, it's not something that most people put together. I love it that you do. But it's not, the thing that most people would, put together. And our thinking behind that, or at least, my thinking, I can speak to that, was that in the way that a commercial musical Wicked, or something like that has this ability to create a type of catharsis that you just don't get anywhere but in the audience of the musical. It can really change your life. I mean, I think that's true about theater in general, but for me, nothing is more powerful than a musical.
And it's because the music. It speaks to our bodies and our minds in a very different way. And so we thought combining those two could be an extremely powerful way to tell a story that most people just encounter on their television screen or scrolling through their news feeds, in the middle of the night.
And I think, Oh, that's terrible. That's tragic. But we've become so numb to it that it's, every day. So, to make something that put them right in the center of it and something that could move them in a way that was beyond logic, music can, speak to that.
So, that was our rationale.
Spencer Williams: Yeah. That's, it's really interesting. The combination of being able to tell the story through music seems really powerful. Cause I know that you can have a much more empathetic experience in a theater space and learning about those stories that way, that I think people need to, because I think we've gotten a little numb to this subject matter.
Right. So, David, you've collaborated with Gabriel before, but then how did you come in on the team and how is that working in that collaboration?
David Dabbon: Yeah, I feel very lucky. I've actually gotten to work with both Jesse and Gabe in different ways prior to working on this project too.
And they've both have been wonderful people in my life and good friends and I remember Jesse telling the story of what you just said about, I was in Oklahoma at the time, and talking about just people waiting and the impact of the feelings that you and Gabe had together between panic and fear of having a child going to a school system and dealing with this. And the thing that I think both of you had said was talking about this concept of waiting and hearing that I'm like, okay, so what is, what does an audience doing besides just sitting in this space and waiting? As a composer, your mind is starting to race both as an artist, what is our voice to say about this subject matter?
How do you musicalize it? And you start just going with questions. But yeah, I think because there were instantly a lot of questions that I had, I knew that ultimately it was the right thing to say, yeah, let's do it. The moment that you don't have the questions, you're like, something's not right.
Spencer Williams: One of the things that you describe Our New Town with is that it's immersive. That's a very interesting thing to create when you're creating a story about this. So, give me a little bit more information about how that came apart of the story.
Jesse Dean: I was just going to start out by saying that originally one thing that really sparked our curiosity was the idea of space and what happened in a space after something horrific had occurred in it. What did people do with that space?
Do you erase it? That seems like the wrong thing to do. Do you memorialize it and not use it anymore? That doesn't quite seem like maybe the right thing to do. So, what happens to that space and what's the best use of that space? So the idea coming into this was there was a lot of thought about: what happens in a space like that? What do you do? And that sort of motivated a lot of stories. So, the idea was that these students came into this space after this event and decided that they wanted to do an unauthorized, one evening show based on interviews they'd done with survivors and families of survivors, and they wanted to sort of consecrate this space and pay homage to it before the school raised the theater and built a new one.
So, the idea of memorializing space and what you do with space after, a school shooting was really how that component came into this piece.
Gabriel Jason Dean: I think, you know, just to give the listening audience an idea of sort of what what it means to be immersed by this piece. So, you may or may not know if you read the show description that you're coming into a space that's haunted, to some degree. But you'll know that immediately coming in into the show, the actors are already out there talking to you.
When you come in the space, they're talking to you as if they know you. As if you're a part of their community. So, in making it hyper theatrical, we actually are completely eradicating the fourth wall. And that's in the, in the spirit of the segway to our town. In the spirit of Wilder and what he pioneered in the American theater, this idea that we can transcend the fourth wall.
But why? We have to, we have to have a good reason other than just let's have direct address. And it felt so apropos even before we decided that our town was going to be the play that was onstage when the shooting happened. We knew that we wanted the space to be a central character, essentially in it. The idea that the audience is sitting in the actual seats where people died, that is very powerful. I think you have to be, a heartless individual to not be moved by that in some way. And to sort of, it is, I often felt a little cruel in the act of doing this because we're forcing people to reckon with this in a very personal way.
David Dabbon: There's also even at the very beginning of the show several minutes in but there's, a portion where, the cast invites the audience to be in this space and everything from, walk around, do what you need, leave your phones on. There's a lot of sense of making sure that people-- especially with something that's very heavy-- that I think both of you have written so beautifully of making sure that people feel comfortable in this space does also change the mindset of how you're watching it. And it's important that you're comfortable in this place that is not comfortable.
Jesse Dean: And I think too, to that extent that David's music also makes people feel really comfortable. We wanted this music to be catchy and for folks to remember it, but we wanted it also to feel like it was written by these students.
And I think David did such a good job of capturing that in his music, that it feels, there's a certain level of like comfort in it. And a certain amount of maybe it hasn't been rehearsed a million times that really gives the audience room to be in the song. With the performers, which is super cool.
Spencer Williams: This is different than in a normal theatrical experience that you're coming into. So, how do you prep that on the front end of it? Or is it supposed to feel like a surprise where people don't know cause sometimes immersive you have to play that in a way that, people are prepared for that experience.
Gabriel Jason Dean: It's not sleep no more or that style of immersion where, it's sort of choose your own adventure.
But the idea, I think the way that we're using immersive is that, there's the space and the characters surround you and you become part of the story. Absolutely. You're integral to the story. You're there to receive this story. The opening number that David wrote is very upbeat, uptempo, it's almost, David, you've described it as sort of, well, I don't, I don't remember exactly what you said, like Jewish camp, right?
David Dabbon: Yeah. Campfire, there were all these songs growing up, going to like these retreats and institutes where there'd be a bunch of us than somebody playing guitar. And I was part of a Jewish youth group called Nifty, and we would sing these songs by this beautiful songwriter, Debbie Friedman and she'd set these prayers to music and people would add harmony and ad-lib and everybody knew the tunes, but it was one of the greatest feelings was just hearing harmony over your right shoulder people over there, creating things, people adding drums. And so, at the beginning of this story, it was important to get that energy of community and people collaborating and bringing to the table what their voice and their ears and rhythm were feeling at that particular moment.
Gabriel Jason Dean: Yeah, we started off with a moment of joy. I mean, that's really, the people coming to the space, they may or may not know, who knows, the audience may or may not know that, they're coming into this, loaded space and the way that we do that, it's pretty, pretty simple.
We have this, theatrical moment of joy and jubilation, and it's cut off in the middle of the song with a complete blackout. And then we go into a monologue. That is one of the cast members from Our Town who's created this monologue out of an interview they did with the security guard who was there the night that it happened. So, we go from that to complete black, flashlights all on the security guard character, and he tells the story. It's putting that, joy and tragedy, right on top of each other that, it feels like a punch in the gut.
And I said, I remember I said, sometimes it felt a little cruel, but he's quite an affable and charming character.
Spencer Williams: I'm really interested in hearing some of the music. Do you think we could listen to one of the songs? Awesome. Yeah. Tell us a little bit about this song and the title and where we're at in this story.
Gabriel Jason Dean: This song is called "Line in the Sand". And it happens almost at the, very middle of the show. And we've always thought of it as the anthem of the piece. In terms of where the cast is at a scene has just occurred-- a reenactment of a scene has just occurred between Maddie and Ben who plays George and Emily in our town and Maddie was severely injured in the shooting, but wasn't killed. And she's extremely cynical. And Ben is sort of the driving force in making the show and he wants her to participate very badly in it. And she says, if you want to make something powerful, put people in the seats where people actually died, not some stupid piece of art, she just doesn't believe that art can do anything.
And so then this song occurs as a result of that scene.
Spencer Williams: So, this is a "Line in the Sand".
I always have to take a minute after I listened to these songs, they're so powerful. But I think the one thing that as I'm just taking that all in is each new shooting that you mentioned. I remember where I was at reading, whether that was like on my phone or in a newspaper. I remember seeing Columbine in the airport. I was actually traveling through Denver. Anyway, it's like, it's very visceral when you're going through those, moments.
Gabriel Jason Dean: When we were trying to create this song we didn't know exactly what we, what we were going to do. We wanted to make a song that would prove to Maddie, the character, that art could do something, that art could be powerful. And I remember Jesse just made this extensive list of shootings. I mean, it was hundreds, hundreds of them and so what we get in that song are the ones that made big headlines. But there are hundreds, thousands actually, beyond that.
And these are moments, that defined our lives. I mean, this was the beginning of, as Jesse described, this was the beginning of my adult life as well. I mean, I was in high school or I was a first year in college when Columbine happened. And I went to a high school in a very rural part of Georgia where only in my sophomore year, was it against the law and against the rules, high school to not have your hunting rifle in your truck, like visible in your truck. And there was a lot of people up in arms about it, of course. So, it was a real shock and a wake up call, to think wow, that this huge, school shooting happens in Colorado that could have easily been my high school.
Spencer Williams: Right.
Jesse Dean: And I also think there's something to that song that brings back such a history. I mean, we don't think of these shootings as everyday occurrences necessarily. Maybe we do, but, but when you stack them up one after another, you realize how far back in your lifetime they actually go and how long this has been a problem in our society.
We've done nothing about it. I remember a woman, a Senator, I believe who was talking after January 6th, who was saying well now I fear for my life every time I go to work and while she was absolutely right, all I could think about was, we've been dealing with this since 1999. Where have you been like, this has been a problem for a much longer amount of time than just today.
So, it's always a reminder when I hear that song of just how long we have been carrying this weight and these thoughts, because I feel like you can't as an American go through your daily life, quite the same as you could back before 1999. Like I feel when I go into a movie theater, I will look for an aisle seat or somewhere close to an exit without really thinking why I'm doing it.
Or I will be nervous about walking into large crowds, without realizing where that intuitive feeling comes from. And I think it's always a reminder of just how much we need gun control in the United States of America.
Spencer Williams: Yeah. And I'm glad you mentioned all of that because this year, I haven't been in the classroom. We've been doing remote learning since March, and this is the first year of my career that I'm not worried about it because we're actually not in the classroom. And then I also saw something very similarly in regards to what happened on January 6th, where it was like, this is what we teach our children is about hiding and fighting and running.
And that is something that is taught at the kindergarten level and you've experienced it and it's awful. And I would never want that to happen to anyone, but this is what we're literally teaching our children without. Yeah. Without doing anything about it really.
One of the other things that you mentioned was I think, we do get numb. This happens so often and then when you're hearing it that way, in a musical way, it does hit in a different type of a way.
Gabriel Jason Dean: Yeah, we focus, in this musical on mass shootings which doesn't account for the thousands of shootings that happen each year domestic violence, shooting, suicide, they're there because people have just unfettered access to guns in this country.
The death by a shooting is so astronomically higher than any other, equivalent country, that has good gun control. I mean, if you look at Australia or Canada for instance, in comparison to the United States, it's a night and day difference across the board, not just mass shootings, but in other ways as well.
Spencer Williams: So, you've had a full performance?
David Dabbon: Yeah. And actually the recording you heard was from the Wagner cast.
Spencer Williams: So, what's your next step with the show? I definitely feel really strongly about getting this out there because it is an important piece for people to learn and reflect and hopefully, maybe even do something.
Gabriel Jason Dean: Yeah, thanks for asking that we, we actually have something to talk about. We have a production coming up at Northwestern University outside of Chicago. And it was going to happen in the spring, but very wisely, even though they're back in person, they postponed. And I think that's going to be great for everyone involved.
So, it'll happen in the fall. And we're going to be doing some tinkering for that production. I don't think we'll be changing a massive amount. We might add a couple of things and do some nips and tucks here and there. But yeah, that's our next step.
Spencer Williams: Congratulations. And then what would be the next dream?
Jesse Dean: I think the dream would be if college campuses across the United States did this as even a, yearly reminder to the government that we need strict gun control. I mean, I think this piece has a very strong activism component.
So, whatever cast does the play, we also ask of them to somehow engage with their community about this issue and try to reach a larger platform to launch something larger. So, I think that that's really important, but I would love nothing more than to see this done all over the United States on college campuses.
Gabriel Jason Dean: I would add to that and that I would like to see a professional theater to take it on. Just so we can get, get the exposure. I would love to see somewhere like in New York Theater Workshop or something like that, to do the show and do it, because it's a cast of college people, I think professional theaters think, Oh, well, those aren't professional actors.
Yeah. I think it's a myopic way of viewing things. I would say you need to cast college students. They absolutely must be this age. You can't cast, even 24, 25, you've lived outside of that. You've gotten numb to it. You're not right at the heart of it anymore.
But I think that professional theaters should do it as well. Not just colleges.
David Dabbon: You know, it's something, I think all three of us have also said out of this conversation too, which is, maybe we get to the day where nobody needs to do this show anymore because the conversation of gun control has, stopped and that there is control over it. So, maybe we get to that point.
Gabriel Jason Dean: That's really our dream that the show becomes irrelevant. It's goofy to say it, but it's true. I mean, this is truly for all three of us. We didn't start writing this seeking fame and fortune or anything like that. We wrote it because we're passionate about the subject and particularly about gun control and also making sure that, I mean, I teach college and on a daily basis inspired by my students and the kind of work that they're doing, that my generation didn't do. And I feel guilty about that, but I think that, giving them something to really sink their teeth into and to use in an activist kind of way.
That's amazing. That makes me feel like mission accomplished.
Spencer Williams: This truly has been a fascinating conversation. And I think the intersection between what you're creating as art and what our country and education and everything needs to be really focused on is so important. So, I just want to say thank you for sharing that and spending part of your life living in this, subject matter, it's not particularly easy. And as a writer, I know you definitely live, that experience and it's on your mind often. And I just think it's a gift that you've been able to create, a new way of experiencing some of these emotions and hopefully create activism around something that frankly should have never have happened. So, I appreciate that very much. And, and thank you for, or being on here today and talking with us and so that we can learn more. And hopefully, I mean, if a listener is listening and they want to do it at their college or their university, they can just reach out, right?
Gabriel Jason Dean: Yeah, we all have websites. Just find us at our websites. Yeah, you can Google any of us.
Spencer Williams: Yeah. That would be amazing that, a student who hears this or if they want to do more of a student based show at some point that this could be something that could be very important and incredible for them to navigate.
Gabriel Jason Dean: Thank you so much, Spencer, for having us on. It's been really wonderful to talk and I've learned new things from my collaborators tonight. So, I love that same.
Spencer Williams: Yes. Well, thank you so much. Yeah. Thank you, Jesse. Thank you, Gabe. And thanks David, for being here. You can learn more, like he said on their different websites about Our New Town and we will definitely be following the journey at Northwestern. That's a fantastic school and I'm excited to see where that production goes. And then hopefully onward at all colleges and universities until we don't have to do this musical any longer.
David Dabbon: Here, here.
